i didn't see him for 20 years from 72 to 92 until he was elected president and called and said congratulations for your pulitzer in history. i would love to talk to you about how to preserve historical materials and what you've noticed from the presidential libraries you for tin. and on that basis we have talked a good bit while he's been president to renew our acquaintance ship after a 20 year hiatus. c-span: have you had any discussions with him about his whole race initiative? >> guest: absolutely. yes, i have. c-span: what do you recommend to him? >> guest: i think this is a great thing. i personally think from the work that i've done that our racial dialogue in america, our discourse is far behind hour objective reality and where we are; that if you study this period and you see how parochial, how limited, how much violence, how on a custom a lot of white people were even meeting simply from a different denomination or a different section of the country, there's -- ads in the newspaper were divided not only by race, but by sex; "help wanted, female," and jobs were -- you know, for women,